Should the U.S. grant more H-1B visas?
Advocates for immigrants and the technology industry say that the U.S. should grant more H-1B visas to allow companies to hire the highly-trained talent they need from overseas. Opponents of raising the cap say that allowing more employers to recruit from other countries will drive down the wages of skilled workers in the U.S. How do you feel about this issue? Make a post.
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DiggNo to the H1B visa and to the L1 while we are at it.
I think we should stop the H1B visa program and start making sure that the American IT workers have jobs first. Then we should start a program to train Americans to work in the IT field. We have done nothing of the sort and we are very short sighted on thinking that Indians, that are not even qualified for the jobs, that lie on their resumes is a better solution. These companies lobby for more India programmers because they feel they can get them cheaper. It takes 4 Indians to do the work of 1 American and it will take several Americans to fix all of the bad code that they write for your company. Been there done that.
What ever happened to the American dream?
I am on a L1 visa, I have a PhD, I earn $115K/yr and I’m applying for a green card. My company has just opened a new business in NJ and has decided not to apply for any work visas in the US because we think we can find enopugh local talent and it is too expensive (higher salaries, cost of relocation). I recgonise that there is probably abuse of the system by some companies but to say that work visas should be banned is nuts and will only make America less competitive not more. The real problem lies in the drop in population growth, the cost of higher education in the US and the resultant shortage of science graduates from US schools. India and China will over take the US in 15 years not because of low labor costs but because they produce more graduates and because the US becomes more isolationist.
Wake up America!
Foreign labor will work for less. If business can’t offshore it, they will bring visa holder’s here. I know too many talented individuals who have had they job offshored or have been replaced by Visa holders. Statements by companies that their Visa holding candidates will not replace American workers is seldom true.
American workers go to toher countries to work as well, and nobody complains. This country offers beautiful opportunities to the citizens, but as a teacher, I can see that many Americans prefer to dropp out of school and work, despite the different chances they get to study. International labor is needed because there are many lazy Americans who prefer to get food stamps, and aid from the government instead of keep on studying, work hard and take the opportunities. So the policy is that they receive and receive but what do they do to get a better job? finish their studies, or compete in the labour market? let’s face it, the jobs and opportunities are there. Don’t blame the immigrants for the lazyness of others.
In understanding the need for “educated tech workers” shame on this
entrepreneur for not looking within the borders of the U.S. Maybe this
entrepreneur should have tried a little harder. Thanks CNN for highlighting
this story on this company–at least this “techie” won’t be looking for work
at this used-to-be prospective company!
H1B quota should be increased.
There are “always” two things: A producer and a consumer. And the good news is BOTH of them want to make/save $$$
Just give a thought who is what in America? or America is both producer and consumer…???
Well in any of the cases; and also to grow the business; more H1B visas make sense; since producers would be able to produce more and more, as local people are just 13% of population who can contribute in production!
Now lets consider the case of Consumers; ofcourse since there would be more production and more competition the costs of the goods sold will come down; and that will help consumers.
Now there is a tiny obfuscation; reflected in some of the listings above: locals are losing jobs against immigrants. Well there is just one liner for this:
“Survival of the fittest”
The great thought given by Charles Darvin and on which we have been believing for years and years and years.
Tomorrow’s America should be more and more prosper; disciplines and remain superpower. And for that we need “talent”. Doesn’t matter from where the talent comes from but all we need are great ideas; which can only come from talent.
…and believe it or not; just because of these great ideas we have been superpower for ages.
Any thoughts?
There should definitely be more H-1B visas granted.
American workers have to stop begging for handouts and learn to adjust their skills to meet the job market. There is no reason why corporations should feel obligated to hire American citizens just because a company is located in America. Capitalism works best when labor costs are kept down. If tech companies do not want to hire Americans, then Americans can get jobs in other fields.
No job industry needs protection. There should never be any job security. Corporations should keep costs low so their stock and profits can soar. If the American worker gets left out, it is their won fault. No company can keep affording to pay Americans top wage with top benefits and expect to be competitive on the global scale.
There is no reason why a family of four needs more than $75,000 a year in order to survive. If you need more than this, your family is greedy, wasteful, and lazy. Larger families survived with less in the past. Americans have to stop paying $100,000 or more for college, stop getting $350,000 or more hosues, stop getting $40,000 or more vehicles, and stop wasting money on clothes and entertainment. Americans have to learn how to work for less money and learn how to budget better.
NO H-1B visas should not increase!! America is exploiting foreign/3rd world countries for cheap labor at the expense of jobs for her own people.
Unemployment rates are soaring (those that report). I’m a technology worker and those jobs are being outsourced and it’s horrible. America is being taken without a single shot, by all the corporate greed! There is talent in America, the CEO’s and corporate greedy administrators don’t want to pay for the talent. If our economy would “deflate” sure I’d work for less, but I have to make a wage to pay for what these greedy oil tycoons want for me to drive a car to my job.
There is so much corruption and white collar crime! Not to mention GAP now using children in foreign sweat shops. They say “retrain”, bull crap — our student loan debt to the gov’t is soaring! Besides I love my occupation and I’m tired of losing jobs to foreign labor exploits.
Companies today are making it a common business practice to layoff constantly and outsource jobs we as americans are perfectly qualified to do
I dont think that we need to increase H1-B visas. We have to focus on education in this country not turn to other countries to solve our problems.
I agree with Rex, the need for more H1B visas is a SCAM fueled by CORPORATE GREED to shift legal resident American jobs, by corporations who pay only lip service to keeping their employees educated at the level needed to compete while outsourcing/offshoring those jobs while at the same time paying large sums to lobbyists to get work visa limits raised by OUR elected representatives. Corporations bear social responsibility to “level the playing” field by contributing to on-going education and re-education of their workers. If unwilling to do so, then maximum “life span” of 50 years for all corporations might begin to solve the transfer-of-wealth problem we have seen since corporations were allowed to come into being, as if human, with no mortality. Corporate capitalism may be responsible for the ruin of this nation if it is allowed to shirk this social responsibility just as we have seen them do with health insurance. We are witnessing the beginning of the end of the middle-class.
Ali,
This is a thought experiment with economics. This is an example of what I was talking about earlier and what’s happening in the economy today. We need to get back to the basics and stand up for what is right. Our prosperity in America today depends on getting this right. I need to post it on as many blogs on the internet as possible so that all Americans understand the implications of government intervention in the economy. Here’s the explanation:
Also, keep in mind, that the supply costs include the following: materials, labor, manufacturing processes, etc
BTW for this example, lower supply costs may be anything (not just labor costs) like a reduction in taxes for one seller but not another.
There have always been problems with the free markets when it is influenced by government subsidies to corporations. To explain simply what’s going on, consider this thought experiment:
There are two sellers, #1 & #2, and many buyers in the same market. The two sellers would like to buy their supply to make their product at a low price. The supply includes all inputs to make the product such as materials, labor, manufacturing processes, etc. Ultimately, these two sellers would like to sell their products at a high price and make a profit. Well one day, seller #1 decided that they would like to make more profit but they can’t figure out how to take more market share from seller #2 to increase profits. During a meeting with management, seller #1 decides to lobby the government for a reduction in labor costs to help them be more competitive against seller #2 because their labor rate is too high. The government agrees with seller #1 and decides to increase guest worker programs that essential reduce labor costs. Like magic, the labor rates fall as predicted because of the increase labor supply, and this makes seller #1 happy. Seller #1 can now buy their supply at a lower cost. This in turn, allows their profits to increase because they are still selling high. If seller #2 doesn’t take advantage the resulting new labor rates, then their profit will be lower because they are still buying the supply at a higher price than seller #1. Therefore, seller #2 will see a decrease in profits. If seller #2 continues to be unprofitable, then they will go out of business after some period of time. However, seller #2 wants to stay in business, so they take advantage of the lower labor rates as well. So who wins and who loses? Since the labor rate obviously goes down, then the workers for seller #1 and #2 will take a financial loss.
That’s what happens when the government intervenes. The government basically allowed the sellers to profit at the expense of someone else-the workers. This may not be the intention, but it is certainly the result. Now, let’s consider what happens without government intervention:
There are two sellers, #1 & #2, and many buyers in the same market. The two sellers would like to buy their supply to make their product at a low price. The supply includes all inputs to make the product such as materials, labor, manufacturing processes, etc. Ultimately, these two sellers would like to sell their products at a high price and make a profit. Well one day, seller #1 decided that they would like to make more profit but they can’t figure out how to take more market share from seller #2 to increase profits. During a meeting with management, seller #1 decides to lobby the government for more guest worker programs to help them be more competitive against seller #2 because their labor rate is too high. The government disagrees with seller #1 and decides to not to increase quota on the guest worker programs. Seller #1 is not happy and goes back to management with a different strategy. This time seller #1 decides to improve their manufacturing process to be more efficient and increase productivity. Seller #1 can now buy their supply at a lower cost because they were innovative. In turn, this allows their profits to increase because they are still able to sell high or even slightly lower than before they were innovative. If seller #2 doesn’t become more innovative, then his profits will be lower because he is still buying the supply at a higher price than seller #1. Therefore, seller #2 will see a decrease in profits. If seller #2 continues to be unprofitable, then they will go out of business after some period of time. Well seller #2 wants to stay in business, so they become more innovative. So who wins and who loses? Everyone wins because these two sellers are doing more with less. The results are lower supply costs and increased profits that benefit their shareholders and workers. Moreover, the buyers of their products benefit because the price of their products will ultimately decrease with increased competition.
We’re essentially making a choice between capitalism and socialism today in America. Should the government make rules that benefit one at the expense of another which is common practice in a socialist economy? Now let’s assume that the government agrees with corporations and grants them this subsidy that essentially lowers the living standard of workers and reduces innovation. How long do you think that there will be political stability in America with this kind of policy? America was founding on rebelling against tyranny such as socialism and our freedom is secure because we have fought for it. It is time to rebel again. Have the politicians not learned anything from history or the countries that have socialist economies? We need to get the word out about socialism and the dangers that threaten the American way of life.
I am an Indian born US citizen who graduated with a masters in HR and public relations. I work as a recruiter for an “Indian bodyshop”.The bodyshop bring people from India and gives them employment.Employment is nothing but a consulting project gained through a fake resume(putting false experience upto 6years) and a phone interview usually taken by more experienced consultants.Here, I expected to run into many experienced H1b workers but I came to know that the majority of the “consultants” where fresh college graduates from India who were faking their resumes and going on projects.Many were getting fired from projects.There are many qualified engineers/IT graduated in America. Many of my fellow graduates ended up as insurance/car salesman or in clerical jobs although they had tech degrees.Here is how its done by “bodyshoppers”:They will bring a college graduate from India,make a false resume with 6 or more years,somebody else take the interview and the guy/gal goes on a consulting project.The Tier1 vendors client does not seem to care. I don’t mind having H1b visas alloted to qualified individuals but I am against falsifying resumes and they are the ones that are really a scourge and need to be stopped.I don’t work for this company anymore.
H1B is a SCAM that only hurts Americans
A lot of companies are actually laying off American workers and hiring H1B visas at a much lower salary and working them longer hours.
I’ve heard countless times about the single “developer” or “tech” job opening, and getting hundreds of applications from qualified Americans.
What your article doesn’t talk about is all the tech jobs moving to India and Philippines. My IT skills that have taken 25+ years to develop are
suddenly too expensive for employers in Dallas. I don’t know about the rest of the country. Companies like Texas Instruments, EDS and others are moving
tech jobs to cheaper labor abroad. I don’t see a good future for Americans in the field of Computer Science or MIS, so why should I promote my field to
kids in high school or college. I think issues like these need to be highlighted. Why does Bill Gates need all those visas if there are people
in the US that have technical degrees like me and can be retrained. Answer we’ve been out of school too long and make too much money for him to want to
hire us.
Just my opinion as an IT worker of 25+ years in the corporate world here in
Texas.
These are the figures for no of americans in other countries taking away jobs from others, not including government or people who force themselves into other countries without any permission from anybody I mean military personnel,
ALBANIA Tirana 646, ALGERIA Algiers 793, ANGOLA Luanda 845, ARGENTINA Buenos Aires 27,600, ARMENIA Yerevan 229, AUSTRALIA Canberra 2,500, Melbourne 38,000, Sydney 55,500, Perth 6,800, AUSTRIA Vienna 14,000, AZERBAIJAN Baku 600, BAHAMAS Nassau 7,050, BAHRAIN Manama 1,800, BANGLADESH Dhaka 1,320, BARBADOS Bridgetown 12,000, BELARUS Minsk 190, BELGIUM Brussels 35,328, BELIZE Belize City 2,700, BENIN Cotonou 250, BERMUDA Hamilton 4,300, BOLIVIA La Paz 3,000, BOSNIA-HERZEGOVINA Sarajevo 1600, BOTSWANA Gaborone 800, BRAZIL Brasilia 7,200, Rio de Janeiro 14,460, Sao Paolo 16,480, Recife 2,500, BRUNEI Bandar Seri Begawan 248, BULGARIA Sofia 400, BURKINA FASO Ouagadougou 329, BURMA Rangoon 332, BURUNDI Bujumbura 46, CAMBODIA Phnom Penh 1200, CAMEROON Yaounde 1,161, CANADA Ottawa 24,300, Calgary 105,000, Halifax 40,000, Montreal 65,000, Quebec 3,400, Toronto 250,000, Vancouver 200,000, CAPE VERDE Praia 1,000, CENTRAL AFRICAN REPUBLIC Bangui 91, CHAD N’Djamena 162, CHILE Santiago 11,790, CHINA Beijing 10,000, Guangzhou 3,200, Hong Kong 48,220, Shanghai 2,382, Shenyang 555, Chengdu 800, COLOMBIA Bogota 30,680, CONGO (Democratic Republic of) Kinshasa 440, CONGO (Republic of) Brazzaville 233, COSTA RICA San Jose 19,800, COTE D’IVOIRE Abidjan 2,100, CROATIA Zagreb 1,921, CUBA Havana 2,000, CYPRUS Nicosia 4,175, CZECH REPUBLIC Prague 10,000, DENMARK Copenhagen 9,380, DJIBOUTI Djibouti 50, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC Santo Domingo 82,000, ECUADOR Quito 7,950, Guayquil 5,874, EGYPT Cairo 10,892, EL SALVADOR San Salvador 10,000, EQUATORIAL GUINEA Malabo 30, ERITREA Asmara 356, ESTONIA Tallinn 1,000, ETHIOPIA Addis Ababa 2,190, FIJI Suva 5,288, FINLAND Helsinki 4,700, FRANCE Paris 75,000, Marseille 23,700, Strasbourg 3,050, GABON Libreville 298, GAMBIA Banjul 546, GEORGIA Tbilisi 303, GERMANY Bonn 692, Berlin 14,619, Frankfurt Am Main 138,815, Hamburg 11,754, Munich 45,000, GHANA Accra 3,780, GREECE Athens 65,000, Thessaloniki 7,500, GRENADA St. George’s 2,000, GUATEMALA Guatemala City 10,000, GUINEA Conakry 660, GUINEA-BISSAU Bissau 25, GUYANA Georgetown 1,500, HAITI Port-Au-Prince 11,000, HONDURAS Tegucigalpa 10,500, HUNGARY Budapest 15,000, ICELAND Reykjavik 1,730, INDIA New Delhi 1,397, Mumbai 9,400, Calcutta 672, Madras 3,900, INDONESIA Jakarta 6,818, Surabaya 2,240, IRELAND Dublin 46,984, ISRAEL Tel Aviv 18,000, JERUSALEM Jerusalem 76,195, ITALY Rome 40,000, Milan 20,000, Naples 72,000, Florence 36,967, JAMAICA Kingston 7,500, JAPAN Tokyo 45,000, Naha, Okinawa 3,415, Osaka-Kobe 13,484, Sapporo 2,756, Fukuoka 5,695, JORDAN Amman 8,000, KAZAKHSTAN Almaty 3,600, KENYA Nairobi 4,237, KOREA Seoul 30,000, KUWAIT Kuwait 7,710, KYRGYZSTAN Bishkek 150, LAOS Vientiane 293, LATVIA Riga 2,084, LEBANON Beirut 10,000, LESOTHO Maseru 190, LIBERIA Monrovia 220, LITHUANIA Vilnius 1,500, LUXEMBOURG Luxembourg 1,527, MACEDONIA Skopje 800, MADAGASCAR Antananarivo 372, MALAWI Lilongwe 863, MALAYSIA Kuala Lumpur 6,639, MALI Bamako 460, MALTA Valletta 700, MARSHALL ISLANDS Majuro 580, MAURITANIA Nouakchott 100, MAURITIUS Port Louis 320, MEXICO Mexico City 441,680, Ciudad Juarez 63,480, Guadalajara 111,100, Monterrey 29,900, Tijuana 196,000, Hermosillo 80,600, Matamoros 60,960, Merida 49,000, Nuevo Laredo 3,580, MICRONESIA Kolonia 760, MOLDOVA Chisinau 125, MONGOLIA Ulaanbaatar 450, MOROCCO Rabat 1,401, MOZAMBIQUE Maputo 641, NAMIBIA Windhoek 350, NEPAL Kathmandu 1,600, NETHERLANDS Amsterdam 23,707, NETHERLANDS ANTILLES Curacao 6,075, NEW ZEALAND Auckland 14,540, NICARAGUA Managua 5,000, NIGER Niamey 335, NIGERIA Lagos 10,000, NORWAY Oslo 15,000, OMAN Muscat 1,444, PAKISTAN Islamabad 506, Karachi 2,100, Lahore 1,250, Peshawar 375, PALAU Koror 300, PANAMA Panama City 19,700, PAPUA NEW GUINEA Port Moresby 2,468, PARAGUAY Asuncion 2,368, PERU Lima 14,143, PHILIPPINES Manila 105,000, POLAND Warsaw 21,300, Krakow 18,000, PORTUGAL Lisbon 1,072, Ponta Delgada 1,100, QATAR Doha 3,775, ROMANIA Bucharest 13,152, RUSSIA Moscow 8,000, St. Petersburg 900, Vladivostok 348, Yekaterinburg 200, RWANDA Kigali 165, SAUDI ARABIA Riyadh 11,506, Dhahran 13,600, Jeddah 10,883, SENEGAL Dakar 791, SERBIA-MONTENEGRO Belgrade 4,514, SIERRA LEONE Freetown 130, SINGAPORE Singapore 15,000, SLOVAK REPUBLIC Bratislava 850, SLOVENIA Ljubljana 650, SOMALIA Mogadishu 12, SOUTH AFRICA Pretoria 8,100, Cape Town 2,647, Durban 720, SPAIN Madrid 75,596, Barcelona 18,917, SRI LANKA Colombo 658, SUDAN Khartoum 1,479, SURINAME Paramaribo 425, SWAZILAND Mbabane 352, SWEDEN Stockholm 18,000, SWITZERLAND Bern 12,113, SYRIA Damascus 3,856, TAIWAN Taipei 38,000, TAJIKISTAN Dushanbe 117, TANZANIA Dar Es Salaam 1,186, THAILAND Bangkok 16,500, Chiang Mai 1,600, TOGO Lome 329, TRINIDAD & TOBAGO Port-of-Spain 3,200, TUNISIA Tunis 700, TURKEY Ankara 2,010, Istanbul 4,800, Adana 266, TURKMENISTAN Ashgabat 107, UGANDA Kampala 1,350, UKRAINE Kiev 3,000, UNITED ARAB EMIRATES , Abu Dhabi 7,500, Dubai 9,000, UNITED KINGDOM London, England 200,000, Belfast, Ireland 4,000, Edinburgh, Scotland 20,000, URUGUAY Montevideo 3,500, UZBEKISTAN Tashkent 590, VENEZUELA Caracas 25,000, VIETNAM Hanoi 3,000, WESTERN SAMOA Apia 495, YEMEN Sanaa 15,300, ZAMBIA Lusaka 980, ZIMBABWE Harare 2,125, , GRAND TOTAL 3,784,693
reference:-http://www.overseasdigest.com/amcit_nu2.htm
Before stopping H1b’s, I want some fairness i.e. let’s not do business with any country in the world, let’s not get anything in or out of this country, and we can live happily everafter.
I’m in the I.T. biz, and the H1B program is used by companies to drive down wages and to make it easy to kill the careers of current workers whose skills don’t precisely match their current needs. They will give H1Bs without current skills the job and have them learn on the job, rather than do the same for workers here to get into new skills. Great people here end up unemployed, and initially, marginally skilled H1Bs come in at low wages and pick up the skills over time. The H1B program is a career-killer for Americans, and a wage suppression mechanism. My employer now lets me do and learn more things and treats me better, only because they now need me. With an H1B increase, I’ll get treated like dirt again until my career one-day stops.
By their shortsighted focus on the bottom line, the self-centered H-1B addicts have squeezed the last drop of blood out of the market, while pushing the capable American work force onto the mercies of society. The mantra of greed is, “Privatize profits; socialize costs.”
On the judgment day, the Lord Jesus Christ will judge between American victims and the caretakers of American capital who have axed and ruined and destroyed the lives of American workers. It will not be pretty. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. The punishment will be forever and ever. May God have mercy on your souls. Repent.
It is nice to see so many people agree that the H1-B visa is a sham along with it’s cousin the L1 visa. We have plenty of qualified individiuals here and can easily create more. Let supply and demand rule. If companies want cheap labor then those companies can leave. Good bye. Thanks for playing. Microsoft, IBM, I do not care. Even Toyota hires local citizens for assembly plants in the USA. When it comes to non US software engineers, please keep them OFFSHORE where they belong. US Citizens are better suited to communicating with business customers in this country anyway. It is all about depressing costs. VP’s do not like to pay for talent. Just like we prefer cheap goods from China. Companies prefer cheap software engineers from India. But, people are not commodities to be bought and sold. Or are they?
Raising the H-1B quota only makes sense if you want to keep America competitive and avoid a recession. Otherwise, let’s keep things as they are and force IT companies to move jobs offshore where the workers are.
The simple fact is that we do not have nearly enough skilled IT professionals in this county. Employers are not going to wait ten years for today’s high school students to prepare for IT majors in college, graduate college, and then make themselves available. If the workers aren’t here, the companies will move the jobs to the workers.
Some people have to wake up an realize that market became global many years ago.
Face it, competition is global. I know that it would be wonderful to have $100K+ job secured forever and leave in a small neighborhood, where everybody is happy and smiling.
Well, this is BS.
Practice of importing foreign workers is not going to stop, it’s going to continue. Therefore, I would advocate to change in H1b, such that:
1. The CAP (if is still there) is variable depending on the performance in the specific industry over previous 3 years.
2. Visa is allocated using a point-based system. H1Bs have the same opportunities on the market (say like changing employer).
By doing this we get real “best and brightest” and because they compete freely they won’t substitute American workers, because of the price, but they might because of the talent.
I think this would be a fare competition.
Also non-tech jobs, which are tied to the language and specificы of the culture are obviously harder to outsource. Ыo don’t think there will be H1B doctors, lawyers etc. coming here soon.
Now as far as IT workers over 40 are concerned. Well, they loose the competition actually because their skills are outdated and it’s harder for them to constantly renew their knowledge. They want to get 100k+ on low level code jobs knowing Fortran. I’m sorry that’s just not going to happen. These workers should move to the upper level: become an IT manager, lead engineer or create their own business and hire agile young people from colleges with modern software skills.
I know a lot of college kids who go to science and who don’t. Well, you know what those who don’t usually say?
“it’s hard! it’s too much math”.
Those American kids who do go to science and engineering majors would say “I like these gadgets, I want to know how this stuff works, I want to make my own one”. When I talked to people in business, medical and lawyer majors most of the time they tell me: “Oh it’s gonna be a big investment but then I’ll make a lot of money”.
Those who want to make a lot of money, who think they’re entitled to 100K+ job, that “math and science is hard”, that it’s unrealistic to compete with foreigners (while they can go to some of the best tech schools in the world!) should check out other careers.
A lot of kids want to become managers, get money the easy way, because they are used to high standard of living and think that is normal and you don’t need to do much.
That’s wrong.
Over the years USA got used to be a superpower, but if you look back - there were many superpowers before, but then they lost to others with a better social system. The question is whether US is going to survive as a great power in this technological global world. Cutting off best talent from abroad is the best way to see US as mediocre country in the next 50 years.
YES! There is a shortage of skilled american workers who are clearly not taking the initiative to improve their skills. If internationals are willing to put the work, they Deserve to have a chance to work with an H1-B Visa. Those of you that are on H1-B visas and say “No” are simply afraid that in the future, H1-B holders will excel, compete against you, and beat you to the chase! Stop being afraid and embrace capitalism.
Once again, I say, YES, ABSOLUTELY YES! Capitalism runs this nation, not fear, incompetence and uninformed decisions!
The problem is caused by Indian IT firms who filed over 20,000 visas on the first day. instead of hiring U.S. workers to work here, they use the H1B to get Indian IT workers here to do work American workers used to do.
It seems like most of us agree that this is corporate America that’s trying to replace American workers with cheap foreign labor. Why shouldn’t we all start a campaign? A website these days doesn’t cost much to let our voices heard.
Every one, including me knows that the H1-B system is a fraud. And I am a former h1-b tech worker. I am speaking out about it, because I am tired of the US employers who mistreat and fire hard working Americans in favor of H1-Bs. Why should I be tired of it? If they can do it to Americans, then they can do it to anyone. As soon as I ask for a buck more they will do it to me too. So it is time to stop this practice
H1B yes, or no: this it’s where this is heading.
As part of this, good ol’ IBM is moving jobs to Brazil (from Canada this time, but the US is no different)
see:
http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5i2GvQYHen7AyfilB80CJRytSsHHg
For the past 10 years I have earned half as much as I used to as a software engineer - since losing my job to an H1B worker. Now I pay half as much to Social Security, state, and federal taxes and my H1B replacement paid nill. Our entire system loses - not just the economy.
All you need to know, read here -
http://lyrelyrepantzandfier.com/
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/PrevWage.pdf
Because of our disadvantage as a high cost-of-living nation, America needs a smart competitive strategy or else we will simple come apart at the seams. Favoring American workers over foreign workers when it comes to hiring for sci-tech-math positions is a good strategy to keep control over precious know-how. The H-1B visa is supposed to uphold this strategy. The American corporations are cheating their home nation (and breaking immigration law) and totally subverting this strategy when they pass over qualified Americans for economic reasons. With H-1Bs in short supply, the L-1 visas are rife with fraud (Wipro and Infosys bringing in contingent workers under the guise of intra-company transfers).
Nothing should happen with H-1Bs until Congress holds public hearings on the labor market interference and rampant lawbreaking that have overtaken H-1B and L-1. New “flex number” immigration law should be written to maintain balance in labor markets (neither employees or employers gaining the upper hand). This system should be based on factual market assessments, such as whether salaries and benefits are rising or falling, and whether the pipeline of college majors coming up is full.
The most important effect we should be striving for in the US is rising pay and job security in the sciences and engineering. This will fill the pipeline with eager, enthusiastic young people seeking careers in sci-tech.
America will then get its mojo working again, and look back and cringe at how close we came to ceding our competitive position to upstarts like India and China.
Yes. Let’s kick the engineers and keep the illegal foreigners that come here to marry US citizens just to get green cards. And let’s not forget the Mexicans that work in our houses.
1 out of 4 patents are applied by foreigners. We are so naive to think we can stop this. Either we understand this is a reality and try to adapt to it or we will loose ground. The music industry tried to kill music file sharing and they are loosing. We are facing the same problem now. Plus, there is a lot of talk about corporations but they need to find ways to remain competitive in the national and international market. Sure, let’s create the perfect company that hires well paid American employees and I am sure this company will survive and do really well. But how can I do that if a large percentage of students in the engineer grad programs are foreigners? The kind of job I do is so technical that 90% of the Americans I interview have no good background. And I will not hire someone just to be patriotic. Either you are competent and I don’t really care where you are from or I am not hiring you.
Thinking companies will not be greedy is naive. We want them to be. That is why we buy stocks from them. We might try to be politically correct but still, at the end of the day it is about money. Otherwise why are you buying stocks? Even the health industry cares more about money than human lives so let’s not blame the tech industry. Sure, two wrongs do not make one right but we are blaming the player that is only part of a social structure we all helped create. We have to stop thinking about this utopia and adapt. Raising the numbers is the answer? I don’t know. What I do know for a fact is that we will pay a huge price for sending all this foreigners we are educating home. From experience, kick the foreigner engineerings and our future generations that will be in the tech industry will have a hard time. I mean, who will really educate them if a large number of professors are also foreigns?
Yes. USA must increase the cap on H1 visas. But what is more important is the way it should be done. I think the British system has more merit than the American system.
1. Granting H1 visas should be independent of the employer. That way, a foreign employee is equal in status to a local employee. He can’t take away a job from an equally capable US employee. He is also competing in the open market, and can as such seek a salary equal to the US employee. If he is not a good communicator, he just doesn’t get a good enough job.
2. Merit-based allocation - H1 visas should chase talent. Let there be a point based system to determine eligibility. Should Congress think that there are too many immigrants coming in, just raise the minimum points required for an H1. Ensures you get the wheat, and not the chaff.
I think immigration is necessary to renewing the vigor in the US economy. During the tech boom, a good amount of entrepreneurs were Chinese and Indian. A fresh perspective brings about a definite change.
Additionally, skilled, well earning immigrants also spend well and contribute by way of taxes. Will that not provide scope for the economy to grow?
One major issue is the difficulty of older IT workers to transition to Web or client server work, even after extensive training. What is lost is not just the personal income for the individual, but the loss of overall experience in the economy.
At one point I worked with many people from India who were over qualified for the QA work they were doing. Of course the salaries they were paid were high for India but low for the US.
In addition the educational systems in many countries were based on the more tightly controlled British system — and full of subsidies for poor but bright students.
I advocate rebelling against our government on this issue. It’s time for “We, the people” to take this power away from the government. The government should not be the HR department for corporations. This is socialism. Anyone that clearly understands the theory of economics, realizes that the government is subsiding corporations to basically reduce the salaries for techies. This is wrong and we should rebel.
No more H1Bs. No more foreign students in our univerities. Leave those STEM scholarship to our kids!
No more H1-Bs. No more foreign students in our univerities. Leave it to our kids.
I would like to add to my previous comment. For absolute proof there is no shortage of tech talent, you will notice that in the defense industry, which must hire US citizens for classified work, they don’t seem to have any trouble at all filling positions which require EE/CS degrees. My friends that work for a local defense contractor claim that for every tech job they post, they receive several hundred resumes from qualified applicants.
I am stunned that anybody can defend the H1B program. I have an MSCS from one of the top CS schools in the US. I have demonstrated excellence in my profession for 30 years now. I am up on pretty much every new technology and spend a considerable amount of my own money on continually updating my skills. I have designed and built software systems that have ultimately led to the CEOs of those companies becoming very rich. I would put my skills up against ANY H1B worker in this country. Yet after 2001, I went 2 years without a job and the one I have now pays half what I made 10 years ago.
There is no shortage of workers in tech and anyone who says there is, is flat out lying.
Here’s one example that I witnessed. At one company where I worked briefly as a temp consultant, they placed an ad in the local paper for developers. Within a week they received several hundred resumes from all over the country. Another developer and I were asked to separate out the ones that had CS degrees from those that did not. We saw many highly qualified applicants. Management (who were Indian) then took those and removed ALL of the non-Indian names from the pile. What they ended up hiring was one of the most incompetent people I have ever worked with. Why? He was Indian and cheap.
Its all about money. Period. And has absolutely nothing to do with the availability of qualified tech talent.
There is no shortage of US Engineers. Companies are only interested in cheap-ass labor.
Study: There Is No Shortage of U.S. Engineers
April 4, 2007
A commonly heard defense in the arguments that surround U.S. companies that offshore high-tech and engineering jobs is that the U.S. math and science education system is not producing a sufficient number of engineers to fill a corporation’s needs.
However, a new study from Duke University calls this argument bunk, stating that there is no shortage of engineers in the United States, and that offshoring is all about cost savings.
This report, entitled “Issues in Science and Technology” and published in the latest National Academy of Sciences magazine further explores the topic of engineering graduation rates of India, China and the United States, the subject of a 2005 Duke study.
In the report, concerns are raised that China is racing ahead of both the United States and India in its ability to perform basic research. It also asserts that the United States is risking losing its global edge by outsourcing critical R&D and India is falling behind by playing politics with education. Meanwhile, it considers China well-positioned for the future.
Duke’s 2005 study corrected a long-heard myth about India and China graduating 12 times as many engineers as the United States, finding instead that the United States graduates a comparable number.
http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2111347,00.asp
This country’s education system is geared to the dunces. Kids that should be in Gifted programs, have to sit by while others are learning English. And then there is no money for Gifted teachers. Lets pour our education money into Gifted kids.
NO! The H1-B discussion is really a discussion of greedy corporate leaders seeking to lower their bottom line by FORCING US WORKERS OUT OF THEIR JOBS and then hiring cheap (but inexperienced) foreign workers. I work with a large consulting firm, and the people that we hire with H1-B visas are not PhDs, they are cheap, inexperienced brand new college grads who have been of progressively lower quality for the last 6 years. The majority of them have exaggerated their capabilities on their resumes, and so require massive training efforts by the few remaining US workers. Nevertheless, by laying off a US worker and substituing a cheap, inexperienced foreign worker, the consulting firm immediately puts more money in the pockets of the senior leadership, and the US workers who have a lifetime of company loyalty and high work ethic increase their OWN efforts to make up the skills gap.
The H1-B debate is simply about greed, not available skills. US workers, especially those over the age of 40 who are approaching companies’ retirement age, are actively discriminated against so that the CEO and senior execs can continue to pay themselves massively overinflated bonuses, and to pay the lobbyists who control the US congress.
I started my software career in 1976. I have never been laid-off or fired…. I am truly one of the most fortunate ones. I have spent the last 20 years working for an aerospace company with a high level security clearance. Today a clearance can help to keep your job and is probably worth 50+K year in salary. These are the jobs closed to foreigners. I also have a generous retirement plan and a nice 401K nestegg. I think all my collegues should be provided with similar benefits if we (the U.S.A.) want to retain the talent pool and competitive edge in the world.
After 30+ years in s/w development I am convined that the latest OOPS techniques and quality people can be just as competitive here as compared to India or ??? But most organizations apply poor quality and poor mgmt skills to managing s/w projects…. and then they wonder why so many s/w projects are screwed up and overbudget…..
I spent four years of my life in electrical engineering school and then worked in a manufacturing R&D engineering position for ten years. My career was vectored towards R&D software development. Since my job was outsourced in 2002, I have been unable to find suitable employment. I did work for a few years in electrical maintenance but the factory closed and the work went abroad. Finally, I did something very sensible. I went to nursing school as a non traditional student (i.e. male and older). Of the five male students, three had past computer backgrounds. I really do enjoy my new profession though; but I am somewhat bitter at the turn of events. When young people ask, I explain “The United States used to manufacture its own goods, but now we buy foreign made goods at a big box retail store. The price is better. We no longer design, make, or test the stuff we us. Forget science unless it is biology”. I know that I steering them straight into a good career. Charles RN BSEE, Virginia
NO! Employers searching for qualified workers should invest in American workers! There are several means by which this can be accomplished, here are three: 1) provide incumbent worker training, i.e. increasing the skill sets of the current workforce; 2) invest in our youth by working with the educational system to create training programs which meet the needs of industry; and lastly 3) provide comparable wages. Higher skill requirements = higher salary!
The H-1B visa topic is not a new issue/concern. So while the first two suggestions may not address immediate concerns, think about the amount of time and discussion devoted to this topic. Instead of lobbying for raising the cap, spend time cultivating the existing workforce.
Absolutly YES!
If a person wants to work and live here temporary or permanently, paying taxes to the US Govt., not being a crminal, why not then!?
I am on H1-B now, and I am her just because I want to live here at this moment. It does not matter, If you are Tech, Finance, Marketing or Art major. If you can find a job that you like, and the company wants you, then you should be able to get this job, withough immigration restrictions!
Regarding salary, to get an H1B is not that expensive. It becomes difficult only because of the immigration laws here in the US.
I think Immigration should be a little more assertive about this. They should definitley grant Work Visas to any person that is needed to the US based companies. And it really does not matter what kind of degree she/he has, as long as its needed and in demand by companies here. The working/business world is becoming so global. People are moving all the time, changing jobs, places of living. Its will be much more interesting and more effective and efficient for all countries and companies if they have a positive and optimistic oulook and attitude towards different types of people, with various types of education backgrounds, and diverse cultures.
Its a small world. Let people enjoy and do what they want to do. Of course, if it does not harm or hurt anyone, or anything.
Thanks.
I am quite astonished that the debate has gone from H1-B visas to Green cards. Why do we need to incentivize our overseas friends with Green Cards. Is the H1-B not sufficient. I think they are given an inch and they want the whole yard. They should work here indefinitely, which means they apply for an extension every 6 years. THey do this in all the other countries, its only here that we offer them our country up as a Prize for getting a job offer.
No. Do not raise the cap. There is no shortage of US born technical people, there is only a shortage of CHEAP US born technical people.
This issue is unpatriotic greedy americans Vs America and her development, the choice is yours.
The comments by John and George, are absolutely on the money!!
There is no shortage of engineers in the U. S., there is only a shortage of qualified and capable engineers willing to work for substandard wages and benefits.
As John wrote, pay Engineers as well as Doctors, Lawyers, and M.B.A.’s and you will be able to employ all the engineers you require!!
My experience is that “imported” techs keep wages down. I am nearing retirement and I guess that will open another slot. I’d rather sit on my porch.
We tax or limit any other item brought into the US from overseas at an artifically low price, if we let the market set the wages for IT people without all of these additional workers coming in, you’d see a lot more IT graduates. It’s not like IT is is hot and nasty and dangerous and no American would want these jobs.
Yes. one can increase the H1B quota as we can also get moretalents from foreign nations and at the same time the H1B visa numbers has to be limited for every company. Say as I heard last time just one company filed some thousands of H1B visas. So if they limit H1B’s for every company then every employer will have an oppurtunity to hire people instead of one big company filing 20,000 H1B’s out of 65000 H1B’s.
I would recommend to keep H1B’s at lower levels, not increase.
When the EU was opened to Eastern Erope, the almost free influx of workers (skilled, but also unskilled) began in certain countries (eg. UK).
I’m living in Europe and work for a big I/T US Corporation, nowadays sometimes called the “Blue Pig”.
This firm has offloaded many jobs from Western Europe to Eastern Europe, and currently
offloads as many jobs from the USA to India and Brazil.
This will take place with our without H1B cap increases.
And finally a prediction: wages in this industry (I/T) will get lower, with or without H1B’s.
More H1B’s will accelerate the wages downward pressure.
“We have never seen such utter lack of competence in the IT world since the onslaught of cheap Indian labor in the late 90’s and right after the Y2K crisis.”
Nail -> Head
“who do not happen to have been born in this geographical area called the United States of America.”
USA is a sovereign constitutional country not merely a geographic area or a business park.
Everyone go read the facts at numbersusa.com
Though I am not in America, and do not know about the ground realities, what I would like to suggest why dont the government put a minimum wage requirement for h1b holders which is quite comparable to the salary being paid to american citizens. This will ensure that the average salary do not go down. It will also ensure that h1 visa holders are not exploited.
Any takers?
No. This article is completely one sided and fails to tell the whole truth with a bias which is very detrimental to the working american IT worker. There are plenty of unemployed American tech workers these companies could hire, they just want cheap labor. Check the job boards like Dice.com for Americans looking for work. I have a strong math background, IT degree, graduated magna cum laude, National Merit Scholar, good people skills, programmer skills and yet I have experienced 2 layoffs and 4 delayed start dates since 2000. I’ve been employed the last 3 years and my current salary is considered middle class not greedy, and yet there is very no real stability in my job as a programmer. I know their were hundreds of people in my Graduating class at my University with IT degrees who have switched professions because the job market is too volatile despite their Math and Tech skills. This so called shortage is self imposed as companies push away qualified american canidates from jobs and the profession alltogether.
Yes Absolutely!
We are a medium size company and we advertised for an experienced IT position and couldn’t find a single American citizen. We have one H1B worker in our IT team and he’s getting paid equally well as our other engineers (on top of the fees that we have to pay for hiring an H1B) and what he brings to the table is just brilliant!
I don’t agree with the statements here about H1B bringing down the wages and availability of American high-tech workers. Being a manager for several years, I know firsthand how difficult it is to find qualified American high-tech workers.
Its a nobrainer for me:
Should we outsource thse jobs to other countries
or have these guys come here on Hib visas where they would actually spend a substantial part of their salaries in America ad thus meaningfuly contribute to the economy and future american growth.
I agree with another post which says that all of us americans today feel that we are entitled to something and most kids today grow up with bloated egos. i am second generation American and maybe have this unique perspective of having seen two points of view.
giving green cards to let these people stay in America and contribute to america
Pay Engineers as well as M.D’s, M.B.A’s, and lawyers, guess what no more shortage. Kids don’t enter science careers because they don’t pay.
Basically, the H1-B program is nothing but corporate welfare, plain and simple! A market driven economy only seems to be good if it is helping big corporations. Raise the wages and the employees will come.
At the level of outsourcing that is currently occurring with engineering jobs, it’s no wonder that more students are turning away from the profession. New students would rather be the fat cats sending the jobs, and the middle class down the river. The pay is phenomenal, who can blame them!
Not only do more visas steal jobs from Americans but OUR technology gets hijacked as well. The H1’s come over for awhile undergo training then load all the intellectual property they can fit onto a flash disk and return to their native land. This whole issue lacks sanity.
Same old cheap, cheap, cheap employers..and some are just plain stupid. I worked for a company, big company with an HR that kept telling me as a manager that they “couldn’t find any good people”…I thought this was absurd…so when I went home I got out a telephone book, called votech schools, colleges, community, and several other places and gave them my FAX number at work. The next I had complains about the FAX machine running out of paper.
As Halsey once said, “you(HR)couldn’t hit a barn with a bass fidel”.
This is a lie, for cheap labor…a lot of technical people in this country are painting houses…unable to work for the $12/hr the companies offer.
Guys,
I’m an engineer with a Mechanical Engineering degree from Columbia University and with 30 years experience. I can’t get any interest from companies to hire me and I’m not the only one! There is no shortage of technical people in the US. There is, however, a shortage of CHEAP technical people. This is not about a shortage, this is about PRICE. It’s no mystery to me why American college students are not entering technical fields. They can’t get paid by American Industry for the extra effort.
Absolutely NOT! And here are at least three reasons.
But bringing inexpensive foreign workers, we are destroying our own talent pool in a long run. What would motivate a prospective college student go into a technology, spent years of time, money and effort and keep on developing his own skills if he can see how quickly the market could be flooded with cheap replacement. And that’s how we are only going to compound the problem, spiraling down in a long run, creating tremendous pressure on businesses and complete dependency on foreign workers.
Secondly, it’s hard to believe there is such a shortage of skilled tech workers when places like Monster are loaded with their resumes and takes longer again to find a new job for an IT employee. Moreover, during the last recession, the IT people were among hardest hit, many had to leave the industry all together. The effort should be to attract them back. This will increase, the pool of talents, provide financial improvement and stability for the returning workers, which in turn will restore confidence in the field and will attract new graduates.
Equally important, given how much resources a local tech workers invest in their skills, they should be carefully protected. It is one thing shifting around an employee who has just couple of months of vacation training and as such could be re-trained and re-employed quickly and another thing to push out some one who spent 10 years and $100,000 for his education and skills development like I did. We should do more to protect against social shocks like this.
Thirdly, the quality of foreign workers is mostly a myth but the communication problems are real. Many companies put foreign workers through the training and there is absolutely no reason why this training should not be offered to American born workers instead. In fact, I can’t remember any foreign workers who started providing a high quality high volume output from the first day on the job.
One blogger rightfully asked whether this should be regulated naturally by the market or whether the supply and demand laws have been disturbed. My answer is that the market has been disturbed. Companies overflood the market with foreign labor, which depresses the wages. From there, the market starts working again and forces domestic workers out of the industry. Meanwhile the foreign workers are getting subsidized education in their home countries and more training by their new employer.
And the quick story that illustrates one of my earlier points. Five years ago, I needed some additional training and I approached a school that provided programs in Oracle. I’m glad the coordinator there was frank enough and told the truce, “You shouldn’t take this class. Most of the Oracle/other database people in New York are workers from India. You will not be able to break into a shop because they tend to hire now one of their own. So don’t waste your time.” I guess many New Yorkers can confirm her observation, can’t they?
The fundamental issue at stake is the notion of labor as a commodity. This works well for those who are contemplating the labor of others, but never when it is about their own labor. I believe it would (and should) be political suicide to increase the H-1B visa quota. Employers, and our government, should recognize the enormous return that investment in human capital brings. Cost is not the only issue of competitiveness, but also quality, speed, and reliability. Shortcomings in these areas reflect the poor quality of management in many businesses, which the rush to increase H-1B does nothing to address, but suppress. It is unfair and anti-free market to simply change the rules of the market in your favor, when the market says that you are investing too little in human capital. Human capital is never too expensive, let the market pricing of labor work as it should. Education and training of workers is key to this nation’s future, and businesses cannot simply shirk their responsibility for short term gains.
I’m an H1-B worker in America and I believe that the cap should NOT be increased - Education strategies should be put in place and sponsorship/funding of students increased. I am sure there are many Americans who could easily get “highly skilled” but do not do so due to their circumstances.
I also believe that conversion of Workers into Greencards is a very big incentive to lure us here. If that was disallowed, foreign workers would not come here. Maybe some hi-tech jobs would go overseas but not all of them!
1. Decrease H1 visas
2. Disallow conversion of H1 to Green Cards.
3. Increase spend for education.
Thanks - Tim.
No. If you are going to write an article on this subject, at least do the research. Too many of the yearly allotment of H1Bs go to Indian companies where they are used to facilitate outsourcing offshore. Restrict these Visas to American Companies and to foreign employees with advanced skills and degrees. How many Visas did Microsoft and other American tech companies apply for and use last year? How many were used by Indian companies. If you did the research yourself instead of just repeating the talking points put out by the corporate mouthpieces, this would be much different article.
I am an international student from Pakistan who has been in the U.S. since 2000. I did my undergraduate and am almost done with my Masters in Business Administration. And I am NOT a ‘Techie’, ‘Computer Science Major’ or whatever…I am a Finance person.
For the past three years now, after completing my undergraduate degree in Economics at one of the most prestigious institutes in this country, I have still not been able to find stable employment because of the way these H-1Bs are snatched away within a few days of their arrival.
I am not going to offend anyone here but I do feel that American workers have this overbloated sense of entitlement and just like American policies in foreign countries, they seek to allocate blame on others for their failures, instead of their own inabilities.
To get an H-1B worker is not that easy - it requires a lot of expenses that I am sure American firms will happily forego. They are not charity organizations - they only hire H-1Bs because the quality of work outweighs the expenses (be that cost of visa processing, communication inabilities or other cultural phenomenon).
But then, as I said, I am not a Techie. I am not even Indian. The H-1B has to be considered beyond these typical demographics.
Here is my problem. I am not taking jobs from an American or anyone else. I get a position because they like my work and personality. And yet, I cannot work for them because of my visa status. In fact right now, I am employed and I still cannot work at my company because of these ridiculously painful visa restrictions on people who actually follow the immigration rules.
Sometimes I wonder whether I should have just crossed the border from Mexico or something.
Anyways, just remember that those American firms who do not hire American citizens for their ‘tech’ work might still not hire all of you who think their god-gifted right to a 100K job with benefits had been taken by foreigners…they might just outsource. You are better off pulling your act together…Now or never
Yes! All of you are simply afraid of competition because you dont want to compete. You know that you will be loose the competition in the fair way so you scrutinize a program that has offered many economic benefits. Those of you unemployed, become better at what you do and find a job rather than being so scared of competition. Capitalism drives this nation, not mediocrity!
Hi from Texas,
I’m a SAP ABAP programmer in Texas and I’ve been working with with many Indians as well as other guys from many countries, 90% of them are from foreign countries like India, China…
The American demand for IT and high tech works are so big that 65,000 h1 is just a very small number, did you guys see how many company had to go to developing countries and hired the labors there?
Did any of you read the book “THE WORLD is FLAT”? Yes, the world is becoming flat and maybe “already” flat, if we (Americans) don’t update our knowledge and keep sleeping on the so-called “USA< we are the champion”. One day, when you wake up, your job will be taken by another guy living in China or India.
So, what’s a big deal here? it’s OUTSOURCING, labors working in foreign counties can not bring tax and money for our “beloved” government, and take your jobs away, big companies has to do it because it’s cheap, that’s it. And also, it brings US dollars to their countries, do you know how much US dollar in cash that Chinese government is holding?
But think about this, H1 workers work in the US, and they have no benefit from the Government, no SSI, no welfare, but they still pay TAX, isn’t it good for our countries?
Trust me, if you CAP the H1B Visas, outsourcing is the answer of the solution for US labor demand, we can’t change it, but we can to make it better.
When I talk to most native born Americans, they said “I ain’t know nothing about Coding, or I rather working in a sale team or Walmart”. That’s the truth.
Besides, Australia and Canadas has programs for talented people who can stay after they finish their degree, and they can even get PR (permanent resident) if they can prove they have good skills, the US as the matter of fact is LOOSING GREY MATTER and importing so many people who can not speak a single word of English but got married to US citizens.
Time to think about it guys, for a better USA
NO, absolutely NOT. Increasing the cap will not help, it is actually worsen.
First, it drives American tech workers wage down and increase unemployment. Who say this won’t affect economy? It will turn around and affect the same companies that try to cut cost in the first place.
No one wins except for the foreign workers who later decide to go back to their own country and run their own companies. America high tech companies (or America economy) will be now be doom.
Absolutely NOT! How many more careers and jobs are we going to give away? It is time to take care of Americans! All NAFTA has done is create more profits for the corporations and more unemployment for the middle class.
This whole issue is because of brainless people at the top dealing with it.
I am a foreigner who has Masters in Computer Science in US. I spent good amount of money for that.
I got H1-B. I work for 6-7 years and if US do not give GREEN CARD or H1-B ..who cares i go back to my home land.
I got the education, experience and can easily contribute to my country economy if US does not treat me well.
US should be looking at me as a good investment and should make stay here by making green card process easier for people atleast who have done higher degree here. I also contribute so much to the US economy and if they treat me the same way with some other foreign worker imported through this bogus big consulting firms…it is not fair for me.
SO if US does not spare a thought to different people falling under the sam e category…trust me..5-10 years down the lane…you will see the reverse brain drain ( i guess this is already happening )
Salaries issue is BS.
Most of the foreign workers are not good enough at negotiating in the first place. Some do not have proper skill set compared to US geeks. SO their is obvious difference in pay.
Say if you have foreign worker and us guy with the same skill and experience..they definitely get paid in almost the same range.
Brainless people at top should think logically.
If the same continues…it is basically you are making foreign worker much more skillful and expert which he/she would use the skills back in home country.
My 2 cents to the whole BS
It is a no brainer to increase the H1B. We have no problem having manufacturing industry in the US compete with the rest of the world through close to 0 tarrif rates. Why should manufacturing companies have to fight the competition with their hands tied behind their backs? Just because the white collared employees are able to kick up a fuss about “dragging wages down”! In a labor market as huge as the US, 190,000 H1Bs are a drop in the ocean. Very few Americans are going in to Science, Technology, Engineering and Math higher education. Most such programs have foreigners. Now to have these people get educated here and then do an OPT/work experience and go back and compete against us? That is really stupid. It is time the politicians did what is right for the country and not give in to these noisy whinners.
No need for more. I have been a contractor for a several Fortune 500
companies doing project work. The lesson always learned that I saw after hirings of large numbers of these H1B visa holders is ‘you get what you pay for’. Poor communication, lack of real talent.
It may look good on paper, but it ends up costing far more that it was worth with companies picking back up the people they let go to replace them with the H1B’s.
I think H1-B visas should be extended to doctors, lawyers and dentists as well. I cant find a doctor who will see me for 5 minutes for less that 100 bucks. A root canal is simply unobtainable unless you are prepared to bid up the cost to uncompetativre levels.
That brings me to government workers. I should think that judgeing from what we are forced to pay for mediocre paper shuffling that there exists a severe shortage of bureaucrats. Alternativley we could be outsourcing government and give the taxpayers much needed relief.
No! I work at a place that had all Americans, and some offshore
contracters. About a 10/1 ratio. It is now the opposite, 10 offshore and
one American. They can be easily intimidated into working
extra hours for
free or they may not get “renewed”. They also need additional time off
and resources (lawyers) to tend to their H1B requirements. These is never
counted into their salary expense. They often do not celebrate American
traditions, so Christmas decorating was dropped as it was considered
insulting. What hurts the most is statements like “Americans are stupid,
you don’t see our country hiring foreigners while our people go without
jobs!” Business is behind it as they qualify all jobs as “Masters
Degree Required”. Does a Masters from an offshore country where degrees
can be purchased count? Higher then my BA from an American
University? Thank you for allowing me to comment.
Do not be misled by all this anti-h-1b posting here. These are all IT workers who are just looking out for themselves and not for America. They just want to make a little more money at the expense of ordinary Americans like you and me.
Ususally, these are the same people who never miss a chance to pay for foreign goods that undercut similar American-made goods. We should not tolerate this level of sense of entitlement among these IT workers. I say bring in as many h-1b s as needed as long as they can find a job here. i don’t care about IT workers (American or not) but I want my computers cheaper.
The only shortage is 20 something, single it workers with master degrees willing to work 80 hours a week for $30,000. Ask any it worker (or former it worker like me) over 40.
Why can’t politicians outsource their own professions (Law Degree professional) to India or China?
No more H1-B visas. Companies do not want to pay a fair price for American workers. They just want cheap foreign workers.
Politicians should be more concerned about preserving American jobs than with providing cheap workers for business.
BOTH POLITICAL PARTIES HAVE KNOWN THE TRUTH FOR YEARS, AND THEY ARE OWNED BY THE BIG U.S. CORPORATIONS. THE ONLY REASON FOR THE H1B VISA EMPLOYEES IS FOR CHEEP LABOR. I CAN’T FIND EMPLOYMENT THAT PAYS WHAT IT USED TO PAY..
The answer to this question is the same as the answer to - “Does the U.S. economy benefit from increasing the H-1B visa cap or not?”. Public policy should be influenced by the social benefit to the country and not the private benefit to individuals. I can understand that from the perspective of American tech workers, more competition cannot be good for wage growth or job stability. Businesses on the other hand would like to keep the supply equal to or slightly more than the quantity demanded to keep wages stable in order to produce more at lower costs. Both are correct from their point of view. From an economic perspective, we should analyze if the U.S. economy benefits from lower prices for the software products. American tech workers form 3% of the work force. Nearly 100% of American citizens directly or indirectly benefit from lower prices for software products. I think it should be an easy call for the public policy makers.
I’m a highly skilled H1B worker with Masters Degree and the like in a very specialized field. I make 115K/year and my current position was open for about a year with no suitable candidates applying. I don’t believe this is depressing wages in any way and I think this is a genuine case where the company had no other way out. So be careful with generalizations.
Everyone talks about the Coporation. The coporations are made up people who happen to be your neighbor. The decay is within the enterprise. As for the H1B workers, most are trying to make a living like the rest of us. What is needed, is the other countries of the world look within themselves and quit relying on America for a financial bailout…
Without a doubt, NO… Do we have to reduce income more in this country for the actual working class. At some point, these same people will be needed to purchase these products, and these (now consumers) will not be able to feed the system. At that point the system (America) will fail. Why are there so many American businesses trying to destroy what has made America what it is, the strongest nation in the world?
No!! I know tech people that left IT all together after Y2K because they couldn’t get jobs…and now they try to get back in and they say they have been out too long!!
Also, why do you think american students are studying IT?. Because the perception is their jobs will be outsourced!!!
Regardless of the number of foreign workers we hire to work for American companies, we need to put more efforts into improving our educational system so that our kids can learn higher levels of math and science at a younger age.
In the meanwhile, allowing foreign workers to work for us actually generates more economic activities in the US as a whole. If you could locate the 100 top scientists in the world, wouldn’t you want them to come work for us in the U.S. inventing products for us as opposed to a competitor in Europe or Asia?
Rome wasn’t built in a day, and neither is the next generation of the Intel chip.
Sure the “competition for these people … is insane”…. that is for those non citizens that work for much lower salaries.
If we forced the visa level even lower the educational system would be forced to turn out a higher quality product here at home…. and more Americans could earn an acceptable standard of living. I have lived and hired s/w engineers in California and Oklahoma…. I do not see a shortage of truly talented people (when you pay a fair wage).
I came to this country on H1B. Got the GC in 3 1/2 years, now have applied for citizenship.
I do not feel any gratitude towards my former employer. I feel that the visa and gc sponsorship was not a handout. They benefited from it and did it for personal gain.
The world is for everybody. I was surprised when I arrived at how much I had to put up with to get through the process, even now I am not sure if I would do it again. Fortunately it is now behind us.
It definitely was no walk in the park.
Yes. I personally came to the US on H-1B visa as the company I currently work was not able to find a candidate with the right skill set from the local market. This is years ago, I am a Green Card holder now, with a Western European passport. Note that I do not work in IT.
During my years in corporate America I have hired dozens of people, many of them entry level or mid level professionals for analytical work. Often times the pool of applicants is very poor, number of qualified candidates is very small and salary requirements are unbelievable in correlation on experience. We very rarely hire from abroad, but some positions have been moved to other countries to actually get the work done.
H1B is not always about low salaries and ignoring American applicants, it can also be about bringing in fresh talent. Government requirements must have clear rules about salary information etc. This should be one of the best way of bringing new people to the US, the kind of people this country needs.
Note that all H1B’s are people with at least college degrees (except for models, which are in the same category, don’t ask me why). These are people who will move in, buy cars and houses, travel, shop and eat out, pay taxes, start companies, manage companies and hire Americans. If you feel threathened by this group of people, maybe your skill set is not up to date or your expectations for your value are too high.
The solution is to not hire semi-qualified people for ridiculous salaries, but to move these jobs elsewhere. So by stopping the H1B process we will not create jobs for Americans, and the economy will also take a larger hit.
A BIG YES. American workers should be “rushing to gain the skills” instead of sitting there and complaining and shooing away competitiveness. While foreign workers are fighting hard to gain top scores at college and update the hottest skills in the market, is it fair that they should face discrimination by the people who think they do not have to just because they were born in the US? Living in an almost flat world nowadays, only true talents will be rewarded not the priviledges of having been born on the U.S land. And after all, where did the majority of the so called native Americans originaly come from anyway?
Take Australia for an example. You got to be real good at school, at work, and add great value to the society to be a permanent resident. Why do we spend so much time buzzing over the legalization of millions of Hispanic labor workers but hesitate to raise a few thousands more on the cap of H1B visas to bring in the brains of the world who will also pay tax big time to feed the welfare system that only the Americans are enjoying?
So Americans, if you think you’re good enough, let’s play it fair.
I am a Physics PhD student from one of the top US universities. All you are talking here is: Americans are more qualified than
foreigners, lets look at your students. I had a chance to teach physics your pre-medical and engineering students for a year and a half. I was surprised to see
how untalented the students were, of course there were some very bright students. In my country they would not be able to knock the
doors of the University (a former Soviet country). I was told by my professor to grade the students not too harshly,
at list give them some credit if they wrote their names on the paper ( they were paying $25-$30k a year).
During the lab classes the professor would come and check if students had questions, and if they had he would answer. He required that I answer their questions during the lab and I did. The students would copy it without even trying to understand what I was explaining (I ended up grading myself).
They were only concerned to get good grades. One day these students will meet an H1-B worker and complain why they have the job they want. And also, at least half of the leading Professors were foreigners ( MIT, Caltech, Phystech(Moscow), Harvard, Oxford ), can you compete with them? If they where not as highly qualified, the university would have trouble to attract high quality students. There was no science in the USA in early 20-th century, how it happened she has it now? Immigration of top scientists of the world, it made the USA the most technologically advanced country in the world.
Don’t complain, the total number of H1-B visas is just 65000 for 2009, instead keep the competitiveness high!